Persecution from Within


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6 Responses to Persecution from Within

  1. mamasheep says:

    This LDS man clearly admits he does not believe that we can become gods, which doctrine is sum and substance of our religion. He also admits to not having a testimony either way about the prophet Joseph Smith. Sheep, don’t follow this man. Though he may be onto corruption in the Church, he is like the blind leading the blind because he is devoid of a testimony of even the most basic doctrine of the Church.

    • Dave P. says:

      Your reaction is typical, mamasheep: Attack the messenger despite the message having a great point. He’s entirely free to not have a cemented belief in Joseph Smith. I myself have been a member all my life, but recent studies have helped me to learn that the claim of us becoming gods is false doctrine and blasphemy, yet I still belief Joseph was a prophet. Does that ruin my credentials or uphold them?

      • John Penn says:

        “…but recent studies have helped me to learn that the claim of us becoming gods is false doctrine and blasphemy…”

        I’m not sure if you’re simply playing with words or not, but the summation of all the doctrinal teachings I’ve read have exaltation as the the goal as far as we know now. Exaltation being the type of life God lives or becoming “like Him”. I’m not trying to start a debate or anything, I’m just curious as to how you arrived at that particular conclusion.

      • Dave P. says:

        Simple. The notion was introduced in Nauvoo, and by that time Joseph had fallen.

        In 2 Nephi 3, Lehi quotes Joseph of Egypt’s prophesy that Joseph, son of Joseph would “be like unto me.” I found a fulfillment of that in Joseph’s experience of 7 years of plenty vs. 7 years of famine. Joseph Smith had 7 good/pure years where he was mostly influenced by God and then 7 bad years (after Kirtland) where he was mostly influenced by satan. A good way to verify this is to read Joseph’s teachings in Kirtland vs. Nauvoo.

        The events that led up to the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor led Joseph to begin repenting, but he failed to complete it before he died because he didn’t heed the Lord’s warning to flee to the Rockies. But, before he died he told the brethren to burn their garments and stop practicing polygamy. He also burned his copy of the revelation that became Section 132.

        Here are some other tidbits:
        * In Joseph’s only personal hand-written account of the First Vision, he only saw one personage, “The Lord.” All of the other accounts are secondary, written down by people claiming to repeat what Joseph told them.
        * The original Book of Mormon and the 5th Lecture on Faith both declare that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are the same person and there is only one God.
        * When translating the Bible (mostly done in Kirtland), Joseph Smith REMOVED passages that refer to men becoming gods or allusions to many gods in general.
        * Satan’s plan both in the war in heaven and on this earth has always been the same thing: establish false gods who will claim to save everyone by removing their agency.

        As for the concept of salvation vs. exaltation, I really can’t say I know other than a guess that salvation remains being cleansed of sin while exaltation is returning to live in the presence of God for eternity, but does not involve becoming Gods ourselves.

      • LDS Apostasy says:

        Men are that they might have joy. The doctrines that came from the last 7 years of Joseph’s life are the only way I can think of to be happy.

        If you say the last 7 years were false, then take away eternal progression, eternal life, eternal marriage, and everything else. The sectarian salvation you believe in is essentially eternal damnation–living forever without progression. Sounds like hell to me.

  2. LDS Apostasy says:

    I thought the article was interesting because it mentions Church leaders saying that his beliefs about global conspiracies, and the impending collapse of the government, are out of line, despite the fact that these same beliefs are expressed in ancient and modern prophecy.

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